COMPARE Rutgers University MQF vs Boston University MSMFT

[Clark Henry]

tl;dr - "Which program has better math and programming? Which city is better for aspiring FO quants?"

The cost is comparable, but I'm not too concerned with that anyway. I just want the best program for me in order to reach my goals.

I've been reaching out to the schools. Still, I would appreciate advice, especially from people who either have first hand or second hand knowledge of their curriculum, and the knowledge about the industry in Boston vs New York. I think the investment community can provide better advice about careers in those cities as opposed to career placement staff. I'm not knowledgeable about it myself.


My Background:

B.S. in Finance. CFA Level 3 Candidate. 4 years work experience as financial analyst in retail firm. So, no real relevant experience. Been trading equities in personal account for 8 years. Took C++ online course on this site, and completed typical math prereqs for grad programs, but I lack as extensive a math background as many applicants, since I was a Finance major. So, my finance is really strong, but no finance experience. My math grades are good, but I don't have a ton of math classes like engineers or applied math majors. I've been using MATLAB in college and C++ for the Baruch online pre-MFE program. No further programming experience. What I lack in formal math and programming experience and education, I make up for with a passion for TRADING!


My Objective:
Always wanted to get into trading. I'd like to get as close to a front-office quant as possible, or portfolio manager. I know front-office positions are highly competitive, so I'm interested in perhaps risk management or model validation type positions in the back-office right out of college. I want to be in a highly technical, fast paced position utilizing a great deal of programming.


I'm looking for the program with stronger math and programming classes. But, I also want to weight that against the job markets in Boston vs Manhattan for the type of positions I seek.

Are there any current or former Boston MSMF or Rutgers MQF students? Or has anyone spoken or worked with students from these programs? Boston seems stronger in math, particularly stochastics and optimization. I'm concerned whether their time series curriculum is strong enough. MQF seems a little more finance focused, but offers time series electives and seems to have many programming classes.

Also, which city is better for my career objectives?

Thank you!

 

[diegosanaz]

I spoke to a girl that graduated from BU in 2010, so the program was the same as it is right now except with a different director. She chose that program over CMU and NYU because she was offered an extremly generous scolarship from BU and her plans were to return to Mexico, were there are not many quant qualified people, so school brand does not matter much at the moment (I still would have chosen NYU).

She said that there are not many buy-side oriented classes. There is an elective taken in Saturdays that the school director gives on the third trimester (Quantitative investment strategies) and also Portfolio Theory from the 5th. But other stuff are taught in other course that can be usefull.

In placement, she said is good, but BU students dont get into top firms like Goldman or Morgan Stanley.

I have no idea about MQF, but good luck with your decision.

 

[Clark Henry]

Nobody can even comment about whether NY or Boston would be a better place for quant traders?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You will get a slight NYC bias here as most of us work in the tri-state area
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/finding-quant-job-in-boston-a-new-yorker-story.10017/

 

[diegosanaz]

The only problem I see with Rutgers MQF is that it competes with many programs: NYU, Columbia MFE, Columbia MAFN, Baruch MFE and CMU MSCF. In addition to Rutgers MSMF and now Rutgers MS FSRM. I believe many BU students are getting Boston based positions.

 

[Clark Henry]

You will get a slight NYC bias here as most of us work in the tri-state area
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/finding-quant-job-in-boston-a-new-yorker-story.10017/

Thanks, Andy. I've read this several times. It has great info about living in Boston. What I can gather from the article is that

Boston has a huge concentration of institutional money managers, whereas... New York has hedge funds, sales and trading and prop traders.

Does that mean the kind of quant trader jobs I seek are not abundant in Boston?

 

[Clark Henry]

The only problem I see with Rutgers MQF is that it competes with many programs: NYU, Columbia MFE, Columbia MAFN, Baruch MFE and CMU MSCF. In addition to Rutgers MSMF and now Rutgers MS FSRM. I believe many BU students are getting Boston based positions.

Doesn't NY have considerably more positions?

Also, in Boston, aren't I competing with MIT MFin and now Harvard CSE students? That's tough competition.

 

[kevinxu]

Doesn't NY have considerably more positions?

Also, in Boston, aren't I competing with MIT MFin and now Harvard CSE students? That's tough competition.

It's great to find a similar peer as you according to the UG background and work experience, as well as the career goal.
I have asked the admission officer of MQF Rutgers, the reply was not cheerful because she said C++ or other programming language grade shown on the transcript is required(mandatory). And I specifically mentioned Pre-MFE C++ certificate from Baruch, she just said no. Did you take any programming language classes in college?
Thanks.

 

[Clark Henry]

Hi kevinxu. I haven't taken any programming classes in college. My only formal programming training was this Pre-MFE C++ certificate from Baruch.

After submitting my MQF application, they quickly scheduled an interview with one of their professors. He asked about my programming experience. I dropped a few C++ buzzwords during the interview, "operator overloading, polymorphism, templates, STL, Boost, Monte Carlo, etc." The interviewer was impressed. It was not a technical interview at all.

They offered admission shortly afterwards. I have to say, they really didn't hassle me about my programming background, which is not very extensive. I'm sorry to hear that your experience has been different. Also, I never asked whether the certificate would be good enough, instead of classes in college.

 

[kevinxu]

Hi kevinxu. I haven't taken any programming classes in college. My only formal programming training was this Pre-MFE C++ certificate from Baruch.

After submitting my MQF application, they quickly scheduled an interview with one of their professors. He asked about my programming experience. I dropped a few C++ buzzwords during the interview, "operator overloading, polymorphism, templates, STL, Boost, Monte Carlo, etc." The interviewer was impressed. It was not a technical interview at all.

They offered admission shortly afterwards. I have to say, they really didn't hassle me about my programming background, which is not very extensive. I'm sorry to hear that your experience has been different. Also, I never asked whether the certificate would be good enough, instead of classes in college.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I wish I could see this earlier. Maybe my lesson learned is I just have to skip the AO chatting and simply apply.

 

[Mayank.S]

Can anyone throw some light on the job opportunities after both these programs? BU has their placement stats on their website. But I could not find anything on the Rutgers' website. If someone could provide even the rough stats, it'd be great. Also, I had a chat with a Rutgers MQF student. He was pretty disappointed with the whole career service of Rutgers Business School and told me that there are a handful of students who have got placed in his batch, making the number even lesser than the previous year.

Regards!

 

[gaurav singh]

Hi guys,

I have got admits from both Boston U MSMF and Rutgers MQF. I am in a bit of fix as to which one to opt for.

About myself: I am a software engineer (B.tech Computer Science) with 3 years of programming experience in C/C++, Linux, Unix, FPGA (Around 1 year of exp as a HFT developer)

Some pointers about the programs

1. Both have around the same fees and same duration (1.5 yrs)
2. NJ has an advantage regarding the location.
3. Rutgers has a wide variety of electives, while Boston doesnt have any electives.

I'd really appreciate if I can get some pointers here.

Thanks in advance,
Gaurav.

 

[diegosanaz]

Have you compared the placement stats?

 

[gaurav singh]

Hi diegosanaz,

Thanks for your mail. A/c to placements, Rutgers MQF has got bigger and possibly more names than Boston Uni.
But placement stats alone would not be a strong critirea to judge the programs.

Thanks and Regards,
Gaurav.

 

[Rajat]

Hi diegosanaz,

Thanks for your mail. A/c to placements, Rutgers MQF has got bigger and possibly more names than Boston Uni.
But placement stats alone would not be a strong critirea to judge the programs.

Thanks and Regards,
Gaurav.

Hi Gaurav,

Rutgers University MSMF program is their flagship FE program and MQF takes a back seat to it...At the end of the day it all depends of you and what are your areas of interest in FE..go through the curriculum of both courses and see which closely resemble your area of interest..
If i were you,i would go with Boston University MSMF course..

 

[mfegrad]

But placement stats alone would not be a strong critirea to judge the programs.

if not, then what would be? the cleanliness of the bathroom facilities?

please understand the point of a terminal degree.

 

[gaurav singh]

if not, then what would be? the cleanliness of the bathroom facilities? please understand the point of a terminal degree.

mfegrad: Thanks for your reply. However, I am not looking at just the placement stats because it entirely depends on the individual rather the number/size of the companies visiting the campus. I have enough working experience (in software development in startups and major firms) to say that, trust me.

What I am looking forward to know is how each program shapes your career in terms of the faculty, the program depth (not just the contents), if the program/professors are experts at some selected area of subject that anybody knows of, the location if that gives you some edge. I am specially looking forward to get feedbacks from people who have been/going through these programs as well people living in NJ/Boston who can rate which place is better and why in terms of cost/ease of living etc. Hope I have made my point clear.

Thanks,
Gaurav.

 

[Lyosha]

the cleanliness of the bathroom facilities?

Baruch loses bigtime there... Horror stories. I tell you, horror stories. I found the most obscure bathroom to go to by literally the dean's office when I was there - the normal ones are completely unusable by anyone with any sense of hygiene...

I have enough working experience (in software development in startups and major firms) to say that, trust me.

Well in that case you are wrong. Or clearly never went to a college with career services that will help you find a job. Because it is up to the individual, but believe me, a great many individuals I have met have claimed to have, lets call them "good soft skills" (ability to obtain and function well communicationally and socially within a job), while virtually all were very poor at it. Career counseling isn't the art of cheating the system, it is the art of learning to better interact with it to be more productive within it. And it is one of the more important lessons I learned in my MFE.

The best MFEs will ultimately be filled 90% with stuff you will never directly use, and in depth knowledge of which will not serve any purpose for you.

There is noone that will expose or even hint at alpha to you. Noone is that stupid. Re-formulate what you are looking for IMO.

I have tons of friends in both NJ and Boston and can tell you they're about equal. Rutgers has easier access to NYC job black market, but judging by your disregard for career statistics, you do not intend on taking advantage of it. It's also a bit cheaper since it's off-the-beaten path NYC.

Also Boston has Tom Brady. And that guy just pisses me off...

 

[Lyosha]

I have enough working experience (in software development in startups and major firms) to say that, trust me.

Well in that case you are wrong. Or clearly never went to a college with career services that will help you find a job. Because it is up to the individual, but believe me, a great many individuals I have met have claimed to have, lets call them "good soft skills" (ability to obtain and function well communicationally and socially within a job), while virtually all were very poor at it. Career counseling isn't the art of cheating the system, it is the art of learning to better interact with it to be more productive within it. And it is one of the more important lessons I learned in my MFE.

The best MFEs will ultimately be filled 90% with stuff you will never directly use, and in depth knowledge of which will not serve any purpose for you.

There is noone that will expose or even hint at alpha to you. Noone is that stupid. Re-formulate what you are looking for IMO.

 

[pruse]

Bathrooms at the BBs are about as bad, actually worse in many cases. I work at one so I can vouch for this.

If they're like this at respectable banks, can't expect much from a CUNY.