Viet Hoang's thread

[Viet Hoang]

Hi everyone, my name is Viet Hoang, a senior from Macalester College, Saint Paul Minnesota. I submitted my application to the MFE 08' program in the end of January 08' and I just spoke with Professor Stefanica on the phone this morning. I was very excited to hear the good news from Prof. Stefanica during our conversation and I look forward to joining the Baruch family in the Fall. So, I want to tell me a little bit about myself, how I became interested in Baruch and I also hope you could share your experience to help answer some of my questions .

Education path: I am originally from Vietnam and I studied in Vietnam for until grade 11. I then got to spend my junior (repeat) and senior year of high school at Taft school, it is a boarding school in CT. Then, I have spent my last 4 years at Macalester College, a liberal arts school in Minnesota. I have always been interested in Math and want to use quantitative skills in my future job. At Macalester, I major in both Economics and Math. I did Linear Algebra and Multivariable Calculus at college-level course back in high school, so I continue to take Abstract Algebra, Modern Algebra, Probability, Real Analysis, Mathematical Statistics, Differential Equation, Combinatorics and Multivariate Statistics at Macalester. I only took 2 Finance classes at Macalester, so I would have a lot to learn before entering the MFE program :-ss
My interest in becoming a Quant: In the summer of 2007, I had an internship at Sowood Capital Management, a hedge fund based in Boston. This was a great experience and I had chances to work with and interact with the Quant team at Sowood. I became interested in their work - it's very quantitative, very intellectual and very attractive to me . So I decided that being a Quang at a hedge fund is what I want to be in the future.
Why Baruch: There is no doubt about the quality of networking and job placement programs offered at Baruch. However, what struck me most about Baruch is the personal approach of the program. In other words, I found it really amazing for such a professional program to have really close relationships between students and professors (I read many posts on the QuantNet and was very impressed with how current students and alumni are so enthusiastic with helping applicants/new students in answering questions). Quoted from Prof. Stefanica, Baruch is a "professional program in a liberal arts setting." Personal relationship is the most valuable experience of my education at Macalester, so I really value it. That's the main reason why Baruch is my top choice.

My questions: As much as I am excited about entering the program, I am also nervous about how to best prepare myself for the program. So I hope you will share your insights and your experience to help me answer some questions.

1. How many hours would I be expected to spend on homework and assignments a week as a full-time student? If I decide to have a part-time job to help finance my living in NYC, how many hours should I work a week?

2. My programming skill is limited to Turbo Pascal, Mathlab and I am self-studying C++ (at the very-beginner level). Could you please suggest some books or study methods to help me prepare for the program? I also intend to take the C++ refresher course this summer - but I'm not sure if that's enough.

3. What is your thought about the availability and approachability of professors outside of classes? Could you set up appointment time to talk to a professor when you need help?

4. What have been your toughest challenges during the MFE program? How did you resolve those challenges?

Thank you very much for your help in answering my questions. Any posts or replies would be greatly appreciated =D>.
Have a great weekend,
Viet

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Viet,
Welcome to Quantnet.

1) Someone told me that the optimal amount of sleep while in the program is 4 hours a day. It works well for me and others.
You can get a pt job and work 10-20 hours/week while studying FT but I don't think the monetary gain is worth it. Focus all your time, energy on studying, get a job and start making money.
2) I would get a basic book and start doing all the problems there. Pick Walter Savitch's book and then move on to more advanced books. Look at the books on the Master thread on my signature.

Prof. Stefanica will be teaching in the Fall and that's blessing in disguise. The amount of C++ coding in his courses will hit you like a ton of brick. I never see so much coding in such a short time but after his 2 courses, you will learn a lot about programming. By the way, Prof. Stefanica will not teach you a single line of C++.

The program in essence starts in June when you start taking C++ refresher.
3) The courses are taught by FT faculty and working practitioners. While appreciated, you don't need to make appointment to see the FT faculty because their office doors are always open. We are all situated on the 6th floor. The students all study in our Quantnet lounge and the professor offices are literally next door.
As for the working practitioners, you communicate with them via email or via Quantnet private messages (preferred method). I haven't seen anyone who isn't willing to stay late after class to answer your questions. I think most of them teaches in our program only because they love to, not as a second job.

4) The amount of knowledge being passed to you in a short time. How to deal with it ? Sleep 4 hours a day.

 

[Viet Hoang]

Thank you very much for the reply Andy. Sleeping 4 hours is tough, so I guess I should practice that from now #-o. But I wonder if the students do homework together and help each other out? Are the assignments mostly group projects or individual works? I'm sure with that amount of workload, you will gain tremendous amount of skills :tiphat:.

By the way, I have another question and I hope everyone won't mind sharing. The current job market condition is probably not great, so I wonder how has the job search been going for you? How is the demand for Quant at this time?

 

[dstefan]

In most classes (and in all core math courses, that is MTH 9821, 9831, 9852, 9862), students work in homework groups of four people, and hand in group homework assignments.

 

[Jacques]

Hi Viet,

For your C++ questions, try to prepare by yourself before taking the refresher C++. Be sure to be comfortable with basic programming (especially arrays) since this will be a quick review, then the refresher will focus on Oriented Object aspects of C++. It is important to keep up during this refresher since starting the fall you will have the C++ class (probably with the same professor).
The amount of work suggested in that class was 18 hours a week (including programming the project assignment and exercices). Be sure to factor this in if you plan to work part time somewhere. You can not learn programming, you have to experience it, that is why even debugging for hours your assignment will increase your learning curve.

For the finance knowledge, I think that a good reference is what they ask you at the CFA level 1 exam (I am not including the ethics, corporate finance and accounting questions), but you should definitely own and get very familiar with the Hull book. So you get a good product knowledge.

Given your level in Math, if I were you, I would definitely focus on C++, and finance product knowledge (what are the instruments used, the diverse kind of optionalities in those, >> hull is good for that)

For your questions about professor availablity, they definietly are. But you will find interaction with other students through the quantnet (for assignments, projects) and the TA (teacher assistant) help very usefull.

In this program you will definitely not find yourself with nobody to turn to if you have a question that you have a hard time to solve by yourself.

We also have a special study room where you can always find MFE students hanging out there, and we have a very nice collection of good targeted finance books which is very usefull.

have a great week end and welcome again !

 

[Andy Nguyen]

By the way, I have another question and I hope everyone won't mind sharing. The current job market condition is probably not great, so I wonder how has the job search been going for you? How is the demand for Quant at this time?

The standard placement calculation is to see how many students we place 3 months after graduation. Using that metric, I have no doubt Baruch will have 100% placement rate by then, if not much sooner. For the current 2008 students, I'm confident that they will be well placed for internship and full time jobs, much better than previous cohorts.

Just for a quick comparison, a unverified source posted that Columbia MSFE has placed only 15 of its 67 graduates by end of Jan. I find that difficult to believe but take it for what it worth.

Here is some info posted by Prof. Stefanica recently. I'm sure we will have the final numbers on the website soon.

As of February 15, 2008, 16 of 20 students who graduated from the Baruch MFE Program in December 2007 have found employment in the US financial industry, all in New York. (Three graduates did not look for employment, all working in the financial industry already.)


First Year Guaranteed Compensation

Graduation Placement Rate Low/High/Average
Dec06-May07 18 of 19 65K/195K/106K
Dec07 16 of 20 70K/200K/ 98K

First Year Starting Salary

Graduation Placement Rate Low/High/Average
Dec06-May07 18 of 19 65K/135K/96K
Dec07 16 of 20 70K/135K/92K

First Year Starting Salary for graduates with no relevant work experience

Graduation Placement Rate Low/High/Average
Dec06-May07 9 of 9 65K/105K/83K
Dec07 12 of 16 70K/ 96K/80K


Clarification: The first year compensation reported here is the compensation guaranteed at the time of signing the contract. It is comprised of the starting salary plus the signing bonus plus any first year bonus guaranteed in the offer letter, if any.

The annual performance-based bonus is not included here. It is usually the case that the annual bonus is about 15-25% of the salary, also higher than the guaranteed bonus, and may by prorated depending on the starting date. We do not track these numbers. In other words, the first year total compensation of our graduates is higher than the guaranteed compensation reported.

More details on the placement of the December 2007 Baruch graduates

Job Profiles:
6 Analyst positions
6 Associate positions
2 Consultants
2 VPs

Company Profiles:
8 positions with investment banks
3 positions with asset management companies
3 positions with life insurance companies
2 positions with consulting companies

 

[Viet Hoang]

Thank you very much for the advice, Jacques, I really appreciate it!!

For the finance knowledge, I think that a good reference is what they ask you at the CFA level 1 exam (I am not including the ethics, corporate finance and accounting questions), but you should definitely own and get very familiar with the Hull book. So you get a good product knowledge.

!

Do you think that studying for the CFA exam and trying to take it at some point will be important/necessary for a Quant career? I think for Investment Management or Research career, it is very important but I don't know how relevant CFA could be for Quant.
I will get the Hull book and try to make myself familiar with the different products in the book before starting the program. This summer is probably tough because the European Championship for soccer(football) is going on :D:D

 

[Viet Hoang]

thanks for the very comprehensive response, Andy.

First Year Starting Salary for graduates with no relevant work experience

Graduation Placement Rate Low/High/Average
Dec06-May07 9 of 9 65K/105K/83K
Dec07 12 of 16 70K/ 96K/80K

Does "no relevant work experience" in this case means no work experience in the financial industry? Or does it only apply to student like me, who just graduate from college and go straight to the MFE program?

I also have another question that my family and I are discussing a lot these days. I got several offer from Economic Consulting firms and I wonder if working for them in 1 year and go to do the MFE program would be more beneficial or not? I don't know if Baruch allows admitted students to defer their admissions for 1 year or not (if Baruch doesn't, of course I will enroll for the coming Fall).
These Economic Consulting firms will typically have Analysts do mostly finance-related stuffs. It probably may be something good to put on my resume prior to the MFE program --> may increase the likelihood of finding good job + higher starting salary ? Another good aspect is that I will save some money to finance my life in NYC as well.
However, I'm more motivated for the MFE program than for the job thingy...
What do you think?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

"no relevant work experience" applies to you and me who join MFE straight from undergrad/grad programs. It also applies to people who are working in anything except finance such as engineering, software development.
Baruch allows admission deferral up to 1 year.
It's always good to have some relevant job prior to MFE so you can make money + get the most out of MFE education. The risk is that you can make money but not pick up relevant experience.
Being a welder or construction worker make lot of money but it isn't adding anything to your MFE education. Without being in MFE program, it's very hard to know if anything you do before or after the program is relevant.

 

[Jacques]

Taking the CFA , as a Quant:

I agree with you, my personal opinion is that unless you start a career in equity environment, for example research (time series, cross-sectional predictability), you do not need to study the accounting and corporate finance which is a non negligeable bulk in the CFA exam.

But the non-accounting part is a good basis reference to know, as it seems to me that it covers very well the finance concepts and products.

Attached an interesting document that will help you see what is a good basic finance product knowledge:

Also I am attaching quick notes on each subject.

(Of course forget about ethics, financial statement analysis, corporate finance part)

In your case, focus on Economics, Equity, Debt investments , derivatives, alternative investments, portfolio management.
For the sake of completness you can read the corporate finance part it is not very complex, and make sure to review the quantitative methods.

Hope it helps

Good luck with your review !

 

[Viet Hoang]

Thank you Professor Stefanica, Jacques and Andy for the advice and information. I have some questions for everyone that just pop up in my head


1. I remember Professor Stefanica told me the other day that students will start to put resume together and prepare to look for summer internship in September-October, the very beginning of the program. I just wonder for those with no prior relevant work experience like me, what would be the selling points to apply for internship? Would they be at a more disadvantageous position than the others?

2. Do we have any formal event in which current students have a chance to meet with and learn from alumni (like an alumni reunion)? :dance:

3. I look at the elective courses and they all seem so interesting. How did you guys choose your elective courses? (based on the professor you like or something else?).:smt024

Any answer would be greatly appreciated

 

[alain]

3. I look at the elective courses and they all seem so interesting. How did you guys choose your elective courses? (based on the professor you like or something else?).

Bernoulli Trials seem to work great

 

[Viet Hoang]

Bernoulli Trials seem to work great

But each person only has 3 Bernoulli Trials :D

Do we have a week or two for "shopping" to decide which elective to take, just like in undergrad?

 

[dstefan]

No time for shopping, unfortunately... But you will first consult with me as to what courses you will take, so you should be fine

 

[Muting]

Hi, Viet:

Welcome to join us. For your first question, I suggest you focus on the coursework of this program. Generally speaking, homework and assignment might take you around 40 hours per week. But we have to read a lot of references in order to get a better grasp of the stuff we learn. For example, in the C++ class, we have been assigned 5 different books to read and still there are a lot of projects to do. All together, it might take you extra 40-50 hours per week. I suggest you spend 90-100 hours per week on your coursework. This is important because now it is the best time to study in our age. We should spend the time on the most important thing, shouldn't we?

Plus, I don't think you need to worry too much about the tuition. Generally speaking, your tuition and living expense will be around 10k per semester. But given that you will earn 80-90k after you graduate, it is worth spending most of your time on study.

For your third question, I have to say Prof. Stefanica is always available to help students in this program. Other professors might have their own office hours. But you can email them about your questions. They are all very nice persons.

The most challenging thing to me is time management. I find there is too many interesting things to learn and my time is only limited. The other challenge is that you need to compete with PhD students when you try to find a job. You really need to work very hard to make it.

Hope this helps.

Muting

 

[Viet Hoang]

Thank you Muting for your thought . What you and Andy said are true, to make the most of my learning experience at Baruch, I should spend time studying and not worry about expenses. The tuition and living expenses would probably be investments with very attractive returns :D.
4 hours of sleep/day and 80-90 hours of studying/week #-o:-ss

 

[Andy Nguyen]

4 hours of sleep/day and 80-90 hours of studying/week #-o:-ss

Don't think it will ever stop once you graduate. Work is just as hard

 

[dstefan]

Don't think it will ever stop once you graduate. Work is just as hard

Indeed, but you get paid to do it

 

[Muting]

Indeed, but you get paid to do it

Now I pay to work hard

 

[Viet Hoang]

I just got the Savitch book today and start reading... It seems like a great book for beginner, simple language and articulate explanations!!! Thanks Andy for the suggestion

By the way, I'm wondering how the workload for refresher courses would be? There will be one class at a time, so I suppose 10-20 hours/week for would work? :smt024