COMPARE Columbia University MFE vs Carnegie Mellon University MSCF

[AJ Burnett]

Is that a problem? I see it as a plus.

No, it's not a good thing. It's a bad thing. It's a terrible thing.

 

[pingu]

No, it's not a good thing. It's a bad thing. It's a terrible thing.

If the adjuncts are people from the industry with connections, that's the best thing. They are your way into jobs. Tenured professors that have spent their life teaching won't have much of a clue.

I have experience this.

 

[IntoDarkness]

agreed. a healthy mix of academics and practitioners is the best combination

 

[AJ Burnett]

The key point = there're **way** more adjuncts than regular faculty for Columbia MFE. It's like 5 to 1, or worse if you limit to FE. That's a healthy mix? Give me a break.

 

[IntoDarkness]

where is this 5 to 1 coming from?

all core (6 in total) courses r taught by real prof. some specialized electives, most of which involve a particular market/product, r taught by experienced adjuncts.

whats wrong with that?

 

[IntoDarkness]

this aj bernett and stochasticity surfaced around the same time spreading nonsense and insulting ppl's intelligence

paid schmuck?

 

[Parallax]

If the adjuncts are people from the industry with connections, that's the best thing. They are your way into jobs. Tenured professors that have spent their life teaching won't have much of a clue.

I have experience this.

Exactly. I'd take an adjunct PhD with industry experience over a tenured/career professor (that has never seen models applied in the real world) any day.

It's similar to the theoretical vs. applied debate; it all depends on what you are trying to do when you are done. For most people, that means transition into a cash-flow generating career in the industry.

 

[AlexDuan]

Hi guys,

I got an offer from Columbia MFE on Monday. It was indeed good news and I wish everyone could get what they want in the end.
But I am hesitating between these two options. I does not imply that I have already been admitted to CMU, it will be on March 20th. It is just that I had an interview with them in Feb, and everyone is saying that having interview means I have a good chance. However, the deposit date of Columbia is on March 15th.
Could someone who was at my position give me some advice? Anything regarding program comparison, deposit deadline extension... should i email CMU, asking for early decision? I am afraid that this action will hamper my admission. Well maybe deep down in my heart, I think I am in favour of CMU. If CMU's offer comes before Columbia, I may not be writing this thread.

Thanks for your help!!!

 

[JonesUCF]

I have nothing to offer on comparison, but emailing Columbia asking for an extension is better than emailing CMU asking for an early decision. Just tell them the truth, it's a big decision and you would like more time to consider all of your options.

 

[alefein]

Speaking for myself, I asked Vanderbilt for an extension while I was waiting for MIT (Both Master in Finance). It was no problem. Nothing wrong with trying, you're not gonna lose your place by asking

 

[AlexDuan]

Speaking for myself, I asked Vanderbilt for an extension while I was waiting for MIT (Both Master in Finance). It was no problem. Nothing wrong with trying, you're not gonna lose your place by asking

Already asked them. Waiting for their reply.

 

[angelalala]

@AlexDuan
Would you mind updating if Columbia has replied your deposit deadline extension request? Thanks!

 

[PatrickSong]

So which one did you choose?

 

[Quantknight]

Hi AlexDuan,

May I know why are you favoring CMU MSCF over Columbia MSFE?

I'm in a similar position but my opinion about the programs is different. I'm preferring Columbia as it has better placement statistics, a bigger brand name and lower fee. Please can people share their opinion and logic behind which program is better in their opinion ?

 

[AlexDuan]

Hi AlexDuan,

May I know why are you favoring CMU MSCF over Columbia MSFE?

I'm in a similar position but my opinion about the programs is different. I'm preferring Columbia as it has better placement statistics, a bigger brand name and lower fee. Please can people share their opinion and logic behind which program is better in their opinion ?

CMU has better career service. The director and the program really help students to get a quant related job. In Columbia, one is on his own, like attending career fair that is open to everyone of CU.
My supervisor is a CMU alumni. I guess there is a great influence.

 

[Quantknight]

You are mostly correct in saying that the career services provided by CMU is better than Columbia. In Columbia it appears that a person is informed of what all companies are in the domain of a person's interests and then the student has to apply to the company directly. But the feedback that I've gotten from current students is that this has never hampered their chances of being interviewed by firms. Probably Columbia being in New York can afford this. This argument is also strengthened by the fact that Columbia's placement record is very good.

Apart from career services I don't think there is any downside of Columbia. And as explained above, this downside too doesn't have any negative impact on placements. On the other hand, pros of Columbia are that 1) Columbia has a bigger brand name and a stronger alumni base (not to say that CMU is not good but comparatively I feel Columbia has a much better reputation especially in the field of finance), 2) Columbia's placement stats are better, and 3) Columbia is in NY.

If anyone has any supporting/ contradicting views then kindly post.

 

[QZY]

I just got the second round admission from CMU MSCF(New York Campus). Now I am hesitating between Columbia MFE and CMU MSCF.

I have come across many serious discussions in this forum about similar topic. Generally speaking,
Columbia offers a more solid (or hardcore?) curriculum and the faculty in Columbia is renowned oversea.
CMU has a better career service, and its geographical advantage(close to Wall Street) might lead to a easier access to internship?

The question is: people say that Columbia's career service is bad, but its career placement is better than CMU on the contrary. Then how exactly is CMU's career service better than Columbia?

Also, I saw people say that CMU's classes are "watered down" CS and Finance. Is that true that CMU's curriculum and staff that overrated? If so, why does it rank #1 in Quantnet?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Charles Hammer]

geographical advantage(close to Wall Street) might lead to a easier access to internship?

What? This is absurd. How on earth would that make a difference? They are both in NYC. People flying all the way from San Francisco can get a job, I don't see why being in Morningside Heights is going to be a disadvantage. Interviewers don't care if you walked to interview or took a train or a plane or whatever. If you mean you would have more opportunities for informal encounters, like having coffee or lunch with people working there, that might depend more on your networking skills than your location (in NYC at least).

Columbia offers a more solid (or hardcore?) curriculum and the faculty in Columbia is renowned oversea.

Columbia's courses are the closest to "regular" university courses, in the sense that they are semester-long instead of "minis" like in CMU or "terms" like in UCB. Does that mean they are more "solid" or "hardcore"? I don't know. I suppose you would have a bit more time to digest the material. Since I don't think anybody would have experience with both programs, I guess we'll never know. As for the faculty, I don't know but it may be true.

The question is: people say that Columbia's career service is bad, but its career placement is better than CMU on the contrary. Then how exactly is CMU's career service better than Columbia?

This a bit perplexing to me as well. I suppose it means that they are more involved in helping you.

Also, I saw people say that CMU's classes are "watered down" CS and Finance. Is that true that CMU's curriculum and staff that overrated?

Can you elaborate on this? Do they mean that they are easy? Or that they are superficial?

If so, why does it rank #1 in Quantnet?

Columbia is pretty close (99 vs 100). But dig into the methodology to learn more:

Peer Assessment Score (20%): Each program was asked to rate the 30 programs in the 2017 QuantNet MFE Programs Rankings from 1 (marginal) to 5 (exceptional).

Here CMU (4.3) beats Carnegie (4.0). It could be a reverence to CMU being the oldest and the pioneer program, but I tend to think people in academia are relatively objective.

Placement Success (55%)

• Employment Rate at Graduation (10%)
• Employment Rate Three Months after Graduation (15%)
• Starting Salary (20%)
• Employer Survey Score (10%)

Apart from the "employer survey" the other info is mostly public. I think Columbia wins in the first two, and they tie in the third one. In any case, CMU does worse than the first 6 according to the "aggregate" score provided by Andy.

Student selectivity (25%)

• GRE Scores (15%)
• Undergraduate GPA (7.5%)
• Acceptance Rate (2.5%)

This is in my opinion the most controversial part of the ranking. You'd have to ask Andy why he choose it this way. GRE is pretty useless, GPA can never be an homogeneous measure, and acceptance rate has too little weight, and in any case it could almost be a measure of "popularity" rather than quality (although it is almost a tautology that people like selective institutions). Here supposedly, CMU fares marginally better than Columbia, I am guessing pulled mostly by the GRE scores.


It is worth noting that in the other avilable ranking, Columbia is second and CMU fourth. The methodologies are very similar, except they don't include a "peer assessment" score, nor an "employer survey".

 

[QZY]

Dear Charles, Thank you so much for such comprehensive analysis. I appreciate your effort and acumen opinion. To explain some of my concerns:

Can you elaborate on this? Do they mean that they are easy? Or that they are superficial?

I came across this reply on the forum:

He did not clearly point out how exact CMU's class is "watered down" and I am also curious about it.

So last question, can I assume you prefer Columbia to CMU?

 

[Charles Hammer]

I thought there was going to be more of an argument. That's just hot air our of that guy. Of course and MFE is NOT a CS degreee, they are preparing you to a quant job not a developer job. Jesus.

I'm still making my decision. But I find a couple of things off putting about Columbia.

1) I spoke to two students and they didn't seem to be particularly happy with the program. Not miserable, but somewhat dissatisfied. Hardly a significant sample, but adding that to some comments I've read here and it starts to pile up.

2) One of the things that they told me in particular is that the board doesn't review the curriculum very often. Only a couple of years ago, and almost begrudgingly, the included a Machine learning course (very important subject IMO).

3) I found a general lack of transparency from Columbia that compares very unfavorably against Berkeley and CMU. For instance they don't publish the median salary, they don't give a "class profile" or show a complete list of students. They also don't give many details about the outcome of their students, just a list of "recruiting firms" and "positions". Check CMU's or UCB's webpage to see how this should be reported.

4) Also they somewhat deceptively say that the program "can be finished" in one year. And maybe it can be, but it would be suicide according to the students I spoke. And indeed >90% of students take 3 semesters. That doesn't stop them from putting in the cost of attendance the assumption of "2 semesters + summer"and the curriculum as two semesters. I don't know if this is incompetence or malice, but it is the sort of thing you would expect of a sleazy salesman, not a prestigious university.

5) Adjusting for the fact that it is a 3 semester program, it goes for around ~$125k CoA, which makes it the most expensive program.

But truthfully, if money wasn't a problem, perhaps I would still go to Columbia, mostly because I am a "prestige wh*re". But I need to take a lot of debt to attend this programs and I am a bit weary of the political situation in the US and besides this bull market can't last forever. I still have two great options so I can walk away from this one without regret.


Still, make the best decision for YOU. They are both good programs, so really you can afford to choose for "feeling"; it doesn't have to be a 100% a "rational" decision.