COMPARE Columbia University MFE vs Carnegie Mellon University MSCF

[Jesse_L]

Hello All,

There have been a number of posts asking for advice on choosing one program or another so I'm hoping to limit this to a very focused discussion. I have been accepted to both the CMU MSCF in NYC and Columbia MFE. I have a B.S. is physics and an M.S. in mechanical engineering from a top tier US University. I am an american citizen with two years of experience in the high-tech industry, no experience in finance and pretty open to various quant job roles after graduation. Both programs look great from all I can read, but I wanted some insight from people who attended either program or industry professionals who have had first hand experience recruiting from both schools. I'd like to hear about overall satisfaction with the program (curriculum, teachers, career services, campus, facilities, finding a job, etc) or overall satisfaction of recruiters with students coming out of either program. Looking for mostly anecdotal insights from members directly involved with one/both programs, please no arguments based on info from school websites, hearsay, and so forth...I've read all that :D

Thanks for all the advice in advance!

 

[sgupt]

Although I dont fall in neither category of ppl u mentioned, my impression/experience says CMU MSCF will be more fruitful choice

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Although I dont fall in neither category of ppl u mentioned, my impression/experience says CMU MSCF will be more fruitful choice

What experience? What impression?

 

[Jesse_L]

Hi sgupt, could you elaborate more on your experience with the CMU MSCF? I've talked to one alumnus of each program and am trying to get a larger sample size of people who have first-hand interaction with the program.

Thanks!

 

[mfegrad]

I'd like to hear about overall satisfaction with the program (curriculum, teachers, career services, campus, facilities, finding a job, etc) or overall satisfaction of recruiters with students coming out of either program. Looking for mostly anecdotal insights from members directly involved with one/both programs, please no arguments based on info from school websites, hearsay, and so forth...I've read all that :D

full disclosure: i graduated from cmu.

you really only have one choice here.

(yes, andy, i will get around to writing a review eventually)

overall, very satisfied. curriculum good on the whole; touches on a lot of different subjects and exposes you to a broad array of disciplines, techniques, ideas. when a few courses were lacking something or could have used some updating, the professors were very receptive to feedback and have since incorporated changes in their courses (as soon as the next time the courses were taught).

professors were fantastic. i come from a small-school background so i'm used to a lot of interaction. we became friends with most professors outside of class, and almost all would stop and take the time after class to ask us how things were going (program-wide) or how the job search was faring. that said, there may have been a dud or two among the bunch, but with 25 courses, it's nigh impossible to bat 1.000.

career services were stellar. i met and spoke with all three dedicated career counselors on many occasions. a ton of companies post positions (trading, risk, research, quant, etc.). i think that most of my peers ended up at BBs in a multitude of roles. career services will be what you make of it...if you go in looking for help and are receptive to feedback, you'll go far. even if you aren't receptive, placement is great.

campus facilities...new york is fine. it doesn't have a true campus feel like pittsburgh, but it's still very comfortable and welcoming. the staff members in ny are great.

finding a job was fine. had a bunch of interviews, ended up with two offers for an internship. the internship converted. currently working and am happy.

***

on the other hand, i do have some experience with columbia. campus-wise, i have taken courses there, and it's not exactly in the nicest part of the island. on the application front, i did apply to the msfe program and was told via email to expect a decision in five weeks or so. after being admitted to my first choice program (about twelve weeks after being told to wait five), i emailed the adcom to ask them to please withdraw my application. they emailed me within a few days to tell me i had been rejected (have to keep the yield number up somehow, i guess) and then emailed me again the following week to tell me a final decision on my application had not yet been made. compare and contrast that with cmu both sticking to its decision deadline and providing such a professional welcome package.

like i said...you really only have one choice.

good luck, and feel free to pm me with any other questions.

edit: removed information about a friend who studied at columbia who might not have wanted me to share anything.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Thanks. This is what I like to read. Information from someone who has first hand experience with a specific program, better yet, someone I can vouch for such association.
I've dealt with a good number of people from each program so I have some idea on the quality of students and program but nothing beats hearing from the students.

 

[Jesse_L]

Thanks mfegrad, that's exactly the type of insight I was looking for!

 

[mfegrad]

no problem. and the offer stands if you have any other questions you'd like answered.

maybe i should have thrown in that you will work very, very, very, very hard as a con...

 

[Jesse_L]

Sending a PM now - I would hope the working very hard con would be part of any top tier program....

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I can assure you that any top MFE program worth their name would work you very hard, so you don't have to worry about this aspect.

 

[sgupt]

mfegrad has done the good work..so i dont need to explain further..i have a few friends from cmu who had similar view about the program..

 

[Johnny N]

Hello everyone!

I have been admitted to both CMU MSCF (NYC) and Columbia MFE. I would like to become a trader or FO quant. I would be really grateful if you shared your opinions on these two programs with respect to my career goals.

My profile:
- international student;
- fresh graduate from BSc Economics and Finance (Economics major + Maths major) - so, I am good at Finance and Maths, but I didn't have good programming experience (C#, MatLab, VBA beginner);
- almost no relevant work experience;

As far as I know, here are the pros & cons of both programs.
CMU:
+ the program is well-designed, it is structured specifically for 1.5 years;
+ excellent career advice and assistance;
- I guess the brand name of CMU is weaker;
- NYC campus is not a 'real' campus, faculty members spend most of their time in Pittsburgh (I can choose Pitts though, but I think that networking opportunities are superior in NYC - am I right?);
- the program is not flexible at all.
Columbia
+ great brand name;
+ I intend to complete the program in 1.5 years with a summer internship;
+ the program is very flexible, it is possible to choose various electives from various schools in Columbia.
- Columbia seems to have worse placement;
- the curriculum seems to be less rigorous;
- during the admissions process I was a bit disappointed by the attitude of the staff to potential students (I would describe it as 'lack of attention').


I am completely lost, to be honest, so great thanks in advance to anyone who will try to help me!(y)

 

[Juan Pablo]

If you don't want to end up coding, I would go to Columbia.

 

[mfegrad]

If you don't want to end up coding, I would go to Columbia.

dumb comment.

 

[themfeapplicant]

From your own analysis above it seems Columbia is leading in your mind. I don't know how you have reached the conclusion that Columbia’s placement is “worse”. Just have a look at the newest career data they have posted for the class graduating in 2012. Just because CMU publishes its career information regularly and a bit more in detail, giving better breakups etc does not mean that they are essentially better on that front. Do not forget that they are a business school and business schools have a tradition/culture (or I do not know if it is some regulatory requirement) for them to publish in-depth data about career placements. Just for comparison sake, NYU and Princeton also do not publish as detailed career information (although the information they do publish is quite indicative anyways on the companies and positions and salaries, for one to gauge their success) like CMU, UCB etc but are still no doubt brilliant schools and many applicants would choose the former over the latter (and also vice versa, but generally that decision is not solely based on the fact that the career information is posted in more detail. It’s mostly because of more interest in the respective program and the experience and areas of interest of the faculty and whether they match with your own etc). Plus since last year Columbia MSFE has now its own dedicated career counselor which they did not have before.
Also I do not know from where you have got the impression that Columbia’s course is less rigorous. Well I do not want to get into explaining that. I guess if you go there you will automatically realize that is an erroneous statement. The course is equally rigorous and well structured and respected in both schools. I do agree with you on the flexibility part though and like that aspect about Columbia better.
You are indeed in an great position to be choosing between these two outstanding programs. Good luck on your final decision of wherever to go. You honestly can’t go wrong either ways. But that said I may give a slight edge to Columbia, based on two things. Firstly if you are looking outside the US as well both right after the course and even after few years, then the Columbia name will help carry you a long way and open more doors outside the US perhaps. Not that people do not know and respect Carnegie Mellon, it’s just that Columbia has a definite advantage in the perception in majority if not all quarters. I don’t know if this may change in future or if it is already changed for the MSCF program, as I am not currently working but it is just my opinion. I may be wrong. Second, being full time in NY is a great advantage if you are applying for smaller hedge funds and trading firms, which may not otherwise make the trip to Pittsburg. I know you can attend the NYC campus to offset this disadvantage, but maybe at another disadvantage by doing this as you would get lesser face-time with the awesome faculty which you must leverage and interact with as much as possible whichever program you go to. There are stalwarts of the field sitting on the faculty of both schools. When you are in the field or giving an interview, dropping a name like Emanuel Derman or Steven Shreve (amongst other greats, too many to list) and a discussion you were recently having with them about a model you created or the future trends in this industry and how you agree with their point of view, really works in your favor. Good luck whichever way you go.

 

[Johnny N]

themfeapplicant, thank you for your response!) My impressions about Columbia MFE curriculum and placement are based solely on opinions. Both programs are very good if we consider the available official information. But if we consider rumors and subjective opinions...) Some people say that the level of Columbia MFE is lower than the level of NYU, CMU and Princeton.

 

[Johnny N]

Could anyone else share his/her opinion?) I desperately need as much advice as possible.

 

[conan]

First of all, I will be attending Columbia this summer so I might be biased. From talking to students at both programs it seems that CMU does have better placement. However, it's not like attending Columbia will reduce your chances to be a FO quant/trader. Two current students at Columbia have told me that most students were given many interview opportunities but some students simply were not able to convert them into offers. The schools can only get employers come to interview you, and the rest is on you. So I think as long as you know what you want and prepare accordingly, both schools will be able to give you the opportunities you need. On the other hand, maybe CMU has better placement because they provide better education. Maybe it's because it's easier for CMU students to get coding heavy positions. If the only/main thing that's stopping you from going to Columbia is the placement stats, I do not think that you should be worried.

 

[wow]

Don't know if it helps, but this is my impression from talking to people in the industry (no clue where MIT fits in, and no info on Stanford):

Princeton > NYU = CMU = UCB = Columbia MFE >>>> everything else

You can't go wrong either way

 

[wow]

I also think the type of role you get will depend more on your experience (undergrad, internships, FT work), interests, and communication skills more than on which top tier program you attend.