COMPARE Cornell University MFE vs Columbia University MSOR

[Joy Pathak]

@Joy Pathak what do u think ?

Thanks in advance to all of you guys.

Both are good names. You should call and find out about their placements and just pick the place where you believe you have a better fit. I think in terms of prestige, both the schools are ivy league and have equal prestige on the street. Columbia will keep you in the city throughout the program so that is an advantage.

At the end of the day you just have to pick where you believe you will be a good fit.

 

[Sherlock]

I don't see a big problem with Cornell NY campus being just a floor. I mean you will get the experience of a really nice campus in in Ithaca anyway. However, do you think being in NY all the time (what Columbia MSOR offers) can be a huge advantage having in mind you don't have any realtions in the financial world? You are also in NY with the Cornell program for the summer and the last term. I am thinking if the first 2 semester away from NY can be crucial. From what I read there are always Wall Street conferences/meetings and so one around and you might be missing a lot? Or am I wrong? I guess Cornell's career services are really good, but can they compansate for not being in NY and still giving you the opportunity to get a great internship?
I must say I am goal-oriented person and it I have the opportunity I will do everything to get 100% out of it. I just don't know if you have the same opportunities ?

 

[coolharvard]

note that Cornell and Columbia MSOR have same designation on the diploma... (Cornell diploma says "Master of Engineering in ORIE" (but they give you a certificate in Financial Engineering (FE is not noted in Cornell's diploma)), while Columbia diploma says "Master of Science, Operations Research).....

 

[Sherlock]

I know and I don't think this makes a difference But still thank you for the advice

 

[pepepersel]

I have been having similar thoughts when comparing Columbia MFE (which I got in) and Stanford's MS&E (which I expect to get in! ). These are quite different programs in well-respected universities; each with advantages and disadvantages with respect to what i want to do.

In your case, i would say these:
-Brand and respectability are great for both universities/departments, especially if you go work abroad. In Wall Street, I do not really know if they prefer one over the other, but in the end, I don't think that people/recruiters at the Street are so narrow-minded to only look at the title of the degree or the university name in your resume, without looking at your significant coursework, your grades and the rest.
-Location is something you need to figure out yourself. do you really like distant Ithaca? Do you like living in a huge city like NYC? In terms of job placement, you may have an advantage if you live in NYC, because you can drop by an employer's office and talk about your case, or benefit from a Professor's connection in a local firm etc...also, perhaps after a guest lecture by a professional who works in a NYC-based firm, you can easily do a follow-up in person.
-Coursework: If u check Columbia's OR, you'll see it's very flexible and you can definitely choose many courses, which are considered traditionally FE.
-Duration of Studies: i think that both programs can be completed in 3 semesters. Cornell generally offers the internship thing as an almost mandatory option (correct me if i am wrong on this!), but nobody would stop u to look for a summer internship if you do Columbia's OR in 3 semesters.
-Career Services: In my opinion, the important things are placement statistics and whether the master programs (or the departments offering them) have dedicated career services. With dedicated career services, you have a good chance to look for jobs just for your profile, while many recruiters will come looking for people like u directly. I know that Columbia's IEOR Department has that. I don't know about Cornell FE (I haven't researched it...). Without dedicated career services, you can use the general university's services, so in both cases -Cornell and Columbia- these are equivalent (really, you cannot tell the difference about these things between two Ivy League schools!). Concerning placement statistics, you should ask both programs to send you those, cause sometimes the websites can be misleading (by stating overall department statistics or by quoting obsolete statistics etc). Finally, check who the employers are and what positions they have employed for, and please don't get stuck in details (for example, career placement of 50 out of 60 as compared to 52 out of 60 does not make a huge difference!!!!)

In conclusion, do not beat yourself over tiny details, cause you may get into the best program in the world (from all perspectives mentioned above) and still fail to get a job etc, while on the other hand you can get into a less good/respectable/etc program and become the most successful professional in a top-tier firm!! In the end, it's up to you to prove yourself and build your resume/profile with the things you do in and out of class, your grades, your experiences, your network etc etc! Tiny differences in brand, respectability and the other areas i mentioned above are just gonna get you so far...so, choose what mostly fits your personality cause both are good options overall!

Hope this helps!

 

[Sherlock]

Thank you for your reply it was really nice to see people actually thinking about the problem. To be honest from my research so far I have the impressiona that Cornell really do take care of all its people in the FE program. On the other hand I am not sure about Columbia having in mind it has 3 amlost similar programs. I just think Cornell helps its students more than Colubmai does? Correct me if I am wrong? Thank you again. I am consider the very same points and Columbia's only plus is its location. Everything else goes to Cornell. A guy grom another forum replied that in Columbia you will have to work to your way to interviews while at Cornell recruiters would come to you. I understand this is not 100% sure but still maybe there is some truth. In Columbia you have around 240 people studiny similar stuff and at Cornell it is only 40/50 and both the university and the recruiting firms can pay more attention?

 

[Sherlock]

Anyone, Anything? I really need to make this decision and in the end I will make it by myself, but a piece of advice is always helpful?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You realize neither is a clear winner and perfect choice for you so seeing the different environment each program will present you, which one will you thrive in?
And this is a very telling question: how many current students and alumni from each program have you talked to?

 

[bronson]

adt were you already admitted by Cornell? I have not heard anything from Cornell yet. I was waitlisted by Columbia.

 

[roni]

I personally don't think Columbia MSOR is worth it. It looks like that the program doesn't prepare you well for a quant position. Yes, some dude got a job in trading, but that's not the purpose of this degree and you don't even need a degree to be a trader. And, yes, you can take many of the MSFE courses with the permission of the faculty members and if there are slots left. But, you are taking a big risk here and you will take those MSFE classes without ever taking the prerequisites.

I personally would choose Cornell.
Plus, Cornell ORIE:FE degree has a curriculum that's very similar to Columbia MSFE rather than to Columbia MSOR.

And, you really think you will want to go to those events for networking throughout the degree (especially when you have ton of work to do) ? I doubt you will be occasionally going to these events. If you really think you will be doing it for networking, you can do it during your summer internship and in your last semester in the city OR take a trip to NYC with some friends for an important event.

Another point I would consider is that you need to get an apartment in NYC after living a year in Ithaca.

And, about recruiting, I don't think a Cornell student will have a problem getting a job given that s/he acquired the necessary skills. The stats can be misleading sometimes. Don't forget that many students are international students from Asia. What if they can't be placed because of their language barriers ? math, programming and finance knowledge is not everything, if your communication is not good (not even excellent), you will have a hard time getting a job in NYC.

Good luck with your choice and please update us with your decision :\

 

[bronson]

adt, I saw you did get into Cornell. Can you tell me when you submitted your application? I submitted mine on January 13 and still have not heard from them.

 

[Sherlock]

I submitted my application on the 7th of January, 2nd of February I received an email they don't have my GRE, 21st of February an email they have it, 23rd an email I am in. This was basically the process. I was 100% sure I would go to Cornell. However a person I respect a lot and who has occupied a couple of extremely high positions in the industry told me that they first look at the school and then (if at all) at what you have studied. So it made me wonder again. Andy I am discussing the issue with several people and as I said I had made the decision but yesterday started thinking again. On the other hand I talked to a person again with a very high statues in this investment world who had graduated Cornell FE long ago and he was very happy with the program. I personally like Cornell A LOT so I think it should be the better option for me. What bothers me is if it turns out that you might get better opportunities with Columbia. I do realize that if you are good enough you would have no problems ideally but still.

 

[bronson]

adt, would you mind posting your stats? Your stats and mine are probably similar and I want to get into Cornell. Being waitlisted by Columbia has downgraded them behind Cornell in my book so I really looking to get admitted to Cornell.

 

[Penglu]

To be honest, not offensive, I think we are all perfectionist, we hope no matter what we choose will end up to be the best possible way we may have. But alas, could it be possible given two are equally well? Who knows what will happen two years from now. I think maybe we should just relax a little bit and focus a little bit more on what we do than what we choose. I am sure these two are equally well respected program, that is why you have so much concern. And I am sure no matter what you choose, as long as you do well in your studies and do a lot of networking, you will end up great.

 

[Sherlock]

After some talks with Cornell alumni I am starting to really have doubts. Some claim they would go to Columbia if they had the same choice and overall they don't seem extremely happy with the program. Their idea is that it does the job to teach you and find you an even crappy job to increase their placement statistics but nothing more. Some say that Columbia's students had more connections which seems natural. Again I have heard the phrase that no one cares what you studied if it is engineering at Columbia. That institutions look at your school not at your exact program. I am starting to lean towards Columbia but still it is 50/50 I guess. Anyone got a brilliant inside she or he wants to share

Another alumni shared some positive stuff on the other hand...

 

[Sherlock]

Sorry for writing another post ( I cannot find (I don't know why) the edit button ). For a front-office position Cornell Fin Eng should be better than Columbia MSOR or it still makes no difference?
Some of the students/alumni like the program some not as much but I guess this is always the case.
?

 

[zimingsk]

just a piece of info...I agree with your frd's idea that " first look at the school and then (if at all) at what you have studied."...that is soooo true...I asked no less than 20 MD/CFO/CEOs from big banks such as GS, UBS, BOA and some major Chinese institutions, what they care the most is the SCHOOL NAME. However, I don't think there is a big difference between columbia and cornell....although columbia seems better, they are still in the same range....

I am now deciding between columbia mafn and cornell mfe....tough choice...we can discuss a bit if you would like to....

 

[roni]

@adt
Hey,

Have you decided where you are going?

In the last few days, I spoke with 3 current Cornell students and one Dec '10 grad. The consensus was that if you are looking for a quant job, Cornell is not for you. Cornell ORIE has PhD students, so if a company needs a quant, most likely the company will take the PhD student. Only if you have a very technical background, you might be considered for a quant job.
However, I got the impression that most of them are placed in trading positions. A big number of students are placed in derivatives trading, very few (perhaps even 1 or 2) are placed in algo trading and the rest in different front-office positions.
So, if your goal is to become a quant, look somewhere else.
I think the same applies for Columbia MSOR. If a company wants quants, it will take MSFE students or PhD students. You need to be very good to have them choose you.

As far as recruitment is concerned, the most common source is on campus recruitment. A lot of companies come to Ithaca to recruit. Also, students receive job posting emails on a regular basis (don't know how effective they are, though).
According to Fall 2010 students, programming is not demanding at all( perhaps it will become more demanding this semester or next semester).
I'm debating between Baruch and Cornell (crossed out Columbia MSOR right away). But, since I want Quant more than Trading, I'm probably going to choose Baruch.

 

[alain]

Anyone, Anything? I really need to make this decision and in the end I will make it by myself, but a piece of advice is always helpful?

Flip a coin.

 

[Sherlock]

@roni , I think I am more interested in a front office job so I find Cornell a good destination.
@alain , Having in mind all that research I have done it will be a "loaded" coin :D