switch from phd to mfe?

[wendyy]

Hi,
I am currently a phd student in electrical engineering in a US school. I have a master degree in applied math. I use fortran and matlab to do a lot of numerical modeling for my thesis, and I am learning C++ right now. I took a course in financial engineering, and I really enjoyed it. I have also read about careers in quantitative finance. I would like to get a job as a financial engineer after graduation. I have 2-2 1/2 years left in my program. I was wondering if it would be better if I leave my current program and join a MFE program, or finish my current program and try to find a job in financial engineering without a MFE. Thank you.

 

[Yuriy]

Interesting question. The answer depends on the person you talk to, and also on the importance of Ph.D. for you.

If you have a Ph.D., you can find quant jobs, the types of jobs will (hopefully) be different than those you can get with just an MFE. If you really want to do a Ph.D., then you should do it. If you are not sure, you might switch to MFE.

 

[alain]

Hi,
I am currently a phd student in electrical engineering in a US school. I have a master degree in applied math. I use fortran and matlab to do a lot of numerical modeling for my thesis, and I am learning C++ right now. I took a course in financial engineering, and I really enjoyed it. I have also read about careers in quantitative finance. I would like to get a job as a financial engineer after graduation. I have 2-2 1/2 years left in my program. I was wondering if it would be better if I leave my current program and join a MFE program, or finish my current program and try to find a job in financial engineering without a MFE. Thank you.

It will probably take you the same time to finish a PhD now that you are half way as it will take you to finish a MFE from zero. If I were in your shoes, I would finish PhD in EE and then try to find a Quant job. It would be easier than you think. Also, concentrate in Signal Processing in your PhD. That would have direct impact in the Quant world.

 

[Yuriy]

Hi,
I would like to get a job as a financial engineer after graduation. I have 2-2 1/2 years left in my program.

I am curious how do you estimate 2 or 2 1/2 years left in the program? As Alain said, this is very similar to MFE timewise.

However, there are fixed time-lines for finishing an MFE. If you study full-time, you can graduate in 3 semesters, if you are a part-time student, you graduate in 5-6 semesters (maybe less).
Ph.D. is a little different, your time-line depends on your success in passing numerous exams

 

[wendyy]

Hi,
Thank you for the responses. I am in the third year of my program, and other students in my program have typically finished their studies in 5-6 years. That is how I came up with the 2-2 1/2 year time frame till graduation. I was wondering about switching programs because I do not know if having a mfe instead of a phd would make me a more competitive candidate for quantitative finance positions. Also, I have also seen people with phd going back to school for a mfe degree, so I was not sure if they were unable to find quant jobs. The phd project I am working on is fine. I think I am learning a lot about how to solve engineering problems with mathematics and programming, but I am not sure how easy/hard to transition to finance. I guess that is also dependent on the year and the job market.

 

[alain]

Hi,
Thank you for the responses. I am in the third year of my program, and other students in my program have typically finished their studies in 5-6 years. That is how I came up with the 2-2 1/2 year time frame till graduation. I was wondering about switching programs because I do not know if having a mfe instead of a phd would make me a more competitive candidate for quantitative finance positions. Also, I have also seen people with phd going back to school for a mfe degree, so I was not sure if they were unable to find quant jobs. The phd project I am working on is fine. I think I am learning a lot about how to solve engineering problems with mathematics and programming, but I am not sure how easy/hard to transition to finance. I guess that is also dependent on the year and the job market.

Why do you want to become a quant? for the money?

What is your PhD project? Is it related to Signal Processing? Financial Institutions can make good use of people with Signal Proc knowledge (price Time series, get it?). How are your communication skills? Can you take the heat in pressure situations? All this will factor in when you are doing a transition to a finance job where decisions can cost a lot of money.

I think the MFE is not going to help you as much as finishing your PhD since it looks like you are midway. Let me put it this way, the financial knowledge is the least thing to worry about.

 

[bigbadwolf]

The phd project I am working on is fine. I think I am learning a lot about how to solve engineering problems with mathematics and programming, but I am not sure how easy/hard to transition to finance. I guess that is also dependent on the year and the job market.

I presume you're already au fait with PDEs, numerical methods, and scientific computing. These are not trivialities. If in addition you can take some courses in simulation, measure-theoretic probability, and stochastic processes, you should be just fine. There's some extra material pertaining just to finance (e.g., how specifically the markets work, the specifics of pricing, say, different kinds of bonds, the various interest rate models around, etc.) but you should be just fine. You'll still have to sell yourself to potential employers, convince them you know the stuff and that you're worth training on the (relatively trivial) finance material you don't know, but a transition should be possible.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Switch to an MFE if and only if
1) you absolutely hate your PhD program
AND
2) your advisor is hiding from you
AND
3) the PhD program is shutting down.

Your post didn't indicate any of the above so I'd say stick to your PhD program.

The best case scenario: you finish your PhD and spend the last 2 years sharping up on the quant finance skills by reading books in our master reading list Then you go on and get a quant job.

The worst case scenario: you join an MFE program and depend on the program's quality, location, market condition when you graduate, you may find yourself with no job and down a good 40K-60K.

The positive thing is that you know financial engineering interests you so you can gear your PhD study toward it. It's better said than done, I admit but there are many ways to get there. MFE is not the only way.

By the way, I was a Math PhD students for 2 years before I join the Baruch MFE program so I hope I have more than 2 cents to say

It worked very well for me but it was a different time and place.

 

[charlieLuo]

Andy really surprises me with his candidness in his last post. I was expecting Andy to sell you Baruch MFE, which is a good choice for a PhD candidate, if it is not the best one. Salute to Andy.​

Anyway, I'd like to add that, it also depends on which PhD program you are in. A top or decent (top 30?) PhD degree sells at least as good as MFE. but maybe not the lower level PHDs.
The advantage of a FE program is that, you focus your time and energy, in a structured framework, to learn FE.

You can list the pros and cons of both choices, and make a decision.​

Maybe you can come to this forum frequently and help, as this decision is really BIG for you. Quantneters here are very sharp, knowledgeable, and homey.

 

[Yuriy]

By the way, one of the professors who might eventually become my PhD advisor has PhD in EE, and his area of interest is Applied Probability, so he knows Stochastic Processes really well. And as far as I know, all EE PhDs must know Probability and Stochastic Processes. This tells me you are quarter of the way towards MFE and you already know the hard part.

Also, if you are already working on a topic and know how to work it out, then don't quit. period.

 

[GusTsahas]

With two years to go, why don't you sit in a class each semester in the business school in your university and follow along. If the school has a Phd in Business program I'm sure there will be some relevant classes to attend and even if the school only has an MBA program there should be a couple of "quanty" courses to take and even a basic finance course will help. You might make yourself useful to a business Phd by offering your quant skills and get involved in a project.

Personally, I am always too busy to take time to go through "hard" material on my own but have been able to learn the material when I commit to attending a course and force it into my calender.

As funny as it might sound, you probably have more time to do some extra learning now then anytime after you graduate when you really get "busy" with life.

 

[Wallstyouth]

Get you're PHD, MFE's will be a dime a dozen in a few years.

 

[talthun]

i find myself grappling with the same decision: finish my phd in ee (at the halfway point now) or leave the program and get a mfe degree

i personally feel that the phd is more valuable in one very important respect, and that is a completed phd is a testament to your independent research skills; that is, if you hold a phd it shows that you stuck with a non-trivial problem (without a solution) for a considerably long amount of time, and also that you were able to independently formulate a solution to it

many quantitative finance positions involving the formulation of models and developing trading or hedging strategies requires the ability to conduct technical research; while many mfe-holders possess the ability to do this research, the mfe curriculum does little to affirm a demonstrated skill set in the area of research; nothing quite proves one can do hardcore research like a phd in the sciences or engineering, and i believe having the degree can be a major plus in this industry

i think you could get a job in quantitative finance with a phd or a mfe; BUT i feel one would have more latitude with the phd in the financial industry and furthermore you'd be able to access to some very technical jobs outside of finance with a phd that are inaccessible at the masters level

these things said, i would encourage you to go forward and do your phd IF AND ONLY IF you don't absolutely hate life in research; in the case you do, i wholeheartedly encourage you to quit the program and get the career you desire in order to be happy professionally and make some money in the process

 

[Yuriy]

i personally feel that the phd is more valuable in one very important respect, and that is a completed phd is a testament to your independent research skills; that is, if you hold a phd it shows that you stuck with a non-trivial problem (without a solution) for a considerably long amount of time, and also that you were able to independently formulate a solution to it

People who have PhDs, as you pointed out, have already proven that they can do independent research and can come up with solutions to various problems. When they get hired, they can develop new models. In case of MFEs, they (almost) never do independent research and don't usually get research or model development positions. So it is up to the person what he/she wants to do