COMPARE University of California, Berkeley MFE vs Carnegie Mellon University MSCF

[JDMe]

(1) What is the difference between the prospects after MFE from UCB and MSCF from CMU?

(2) Will a student have advantage in certain career path if one goes to UCB as opposed to CMU?

I have searched the forum for such comparison but did not see a comprehensive discussion about career prospects. I am not looking for some kind of vote but real comparison based upon course structure. I am new to finance so please excuse me if this question is just too simple.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

It's hard for someone who does not have first hand experience of both program to give you a comparison.
The most logical approach I can think of is to look at the full-time jobs offered to graduates of both programs, see the location and type of job most of them obtain, then see if those are the kind of job you target. Since you are new, you most likely will get an entry level analyst position. Look at the products they end up doing and see if you like it or not.

I will only give you the links to the latest report
CMU Recruiting Partners 2008 - 2009 : Tepper School of Business
UCB Employment & Internship Report (2008-2009) - Master of Financial Engineering Program - Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley

 

[alain]

on careers prospect it all depends on you.

 

[JDMe]

I am personally interested in getting into algorithmic trading, high frequency trading kind of job.

So which course prepares me more in that direction: UCB or CMU and why? What courses let's say in CMU matters and UCB doesn't teach?

Alain: why does career prospect depend on me and not so much on the course? Shouldn't it be like: if you study medicine you become a doctor and if you study law you become a lawyer?

 

[sak]

Andy's post has links and it gives a fairly good idea about job prospect after each of these courses.

But this makes me ask a question about the job profile of Baruch graduates. Can any current or past Baruch graduate talk about what kind of roles students typically have?

I was also curious about:
- What percentage of overall assignments at Baruch involves programming?
- Do you guys typically use C++ or are other programming languages promoted as well?

 

[KevinY]

I guess there are already tons of discussions on this two programs; either has its advantages and drawbacks.
I am admitted to both programs and I think I will go for Berkeley, but before making my final decision, I am trying to list my reasons and perhaps I will be inspired by someone here.

Background: 26, Male, Asian, ME for undergrad in China, Applied Math for master in US, CFA level 1, working in financial software in Equity area for about 2 years now, located in NYC.
Applied two schools and got admitted to both.

· Time/Cost
o MSCF starting this fall; MFE starting next March ->MFE in Berkeley fits the bonus cycle and gives me more time to prep and read the crazy book list (thanks quantnet J).
o MSCF is 18 months while MFE is 12 months -> half year opportunity cost for salary
o MSCF is 54k(21k scholarship), MFE is 51k -> almost the same
o It’s possible to transfer to part time for the last semester, working while finishing the school -> it won’t be easy tho.
o Living in NYC costs more than Berkeley -> I ignore this part as I am sure I will enjoy life in both places.
· Program setting
o MSCF is a program designed by four department while MFE is taught in Haas Business school
o MSCF is more tech focused (programming classes for example) while MFE is more finance focused (lots of great finance professors)
o Both programs are not flexible in terms of their courses – MFE has 16 units required; 9-11 elective(choose from a certain course list) and 1-3 finance project; MSCF has 6 minis and all the course are basically fixed (can exempt up to 2 courses, but can’t replace them with others in NYC)
o Both offers pre-program courses, which will be somewhat helpful to refresh my knowledge
· Location, location, location.
o NYC vs Cali – Live in NYC for 2 years and love it, with friends to hang out and tons of activities; visited San Francisco 5 times and it’s one of my favorite cities.
o NYC location is awesome, next to Wall Street, with the chance to ask alumni for a coffee or lunch meeting. It helps to build up the network on the street; California, oh well, the weather is just awesome. It might be tough to keep in touch with all the activities on the east coast, but long distance conference tools can help.
o MSCF is more focused to land you a job in east coast; MFE is focused to land you a job globally – with tons of their students go to Asia and Europe. They are both doing a really good job.
· Students/Alumnus’ network
o Both are in Business schools so that the students can take advantages on that – MSCF in NYC is kind of isolated from MBAs; MFE is at least study in the same place with MBAs with lots of social events (mostly still just hang out with MFEs J).
o MSCF is younger while MFE has more working experience in general
o MSCF has a great network on the street; Haas is not either
o Haas is better than Tepper, especially for the reputation in Asia.
· Career service
o Both are doing great as I mentioned before
o MSCF will try to get a job as associate level as MFE is almost all associate level (students have the working experience)
o MSCF is great for trading/sales; MFE is more about finance, so slightly more diversified (not much).
o Starting salary for the same level should be almost the same for both schools
· And after all, it’s Berkeley (irrational here).

And based on the above reasons (all personal opinions), I think Berkeley would be a better fit for me. I read lots of posts in quantnet and thanks for all the help. Hope someone can share their opinions and I am letting my decision sit there for a while before making up my mind.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You did not mention where do you want to do/be after the program and 5 years from now. Knowing that and learning how each program can help you moving into that direction give you a better idea.
What is most important to you? A brand name, a network of alum you can tap in, technical skill, a broad knowledge in finance, access to some specific job/companies?

Many of your analysis is hard to quantified. How do you know if the name of one is better in Asia than the other? How do you know if one program has better network on Wall Street than the other?

I would be interested in the kind of data you used to come up with these. Quantnet has current students and alum of both programs on board so I hope they can chime in.

 

[enthusiast]

Sounds like you know what is a better fit for you (which is great). Both programs are excellent and you can't go wrong selecting any one.

 

[KevinY]

Thanks Andy.

I want to be a trader as a start (which is hard under current market condition) and as for 5 years, there are too many uncertainties and I don't want to think that far. But the typical way is from sale side to buy side as I am getting older (more experienced I hope). Both schools are good in terms of landing a job after graduate and I honestly believe that the real difference would be skill set/networking/opportunities and in the end, the soft skills are more important. And that's why I think a brand name is more important in the long run.

And yes, all of my analysis is just a feeling - with some facts. I have talked to both programs' directors, current students; alumnus (work with some); and went to some of their social events. Berkeley is well know as one of the top schools in the world and Haas ranked very high by economists. But CMU has longer history and lots of people knows it on the street. Both are good and slight different.

I guess both are good options and in the end, personal preference is the key.

 

[roastduck]

Hey guys,

Thank you for getting into this post. =)

I have got the admissions from both programs and need to make a decision very soon. CMU offers some scholarship so the tuitions are almost the same. I also like the courses of both programs.

I have been working as an exotic interest quant at a commercial bank for 1 year and would like to pursue a career in quantitative trading, exotic trading, structuring, strategist after a master degree. Although I don't have a phd degree, I am quite ok with maths and C++, just I hope to be closer to the market and talk more to people from the business side. Due to some family reasons, I wish to get an internship and fulltime job in NY area, preferrably with big IBs/funds.

Could anyone share some insights on:
1) which of the two programs is better at placing students into my areas of interest?
2) CMU MSCF has summer internship while the internship period at Berkeley MFE is off-cycle. does that mean a big difference in the interview/intern/fulltime opportunities in my areas of interest?
3) which one helps more in job hunting in terms of previous working experience?
a) go to CMU MSCF with 1.5 yr quant experience
b) go to Berkeley MFE with 2 yr quant experience

Thanks a trillion guys!!!!!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

There was a member with an almost identical dilemma recently
http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/cmu-mscf-vs-berkeley-mfe.6247/

 

[mfegrad]

if you want to be in nyc, your better bet is almost assuredly cmu. both programs are stellar, but i think the proximity to the east coast (and the satellite campus in nyc) helps cmu place in nyc. best of luck with your decision.

 

[roastduck]

if you want to be in nyc, your better bet is almost assuredly cmu. both programs are stellar, but i think the proximity to the east coast (and the satellite campus in nyc) helps cmu place in nyc. best of luck with your decision.

Thanks a lot, mfegrad!
It's just too hard to make a decision, perhaps I'm being too greedy....

 

[roastduck]

There was a member with an almost identical dilemma recently
http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/cmu-mscf-vs-berkeley-mfe.6247/

Thanks very much, Andy! I have read that through.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I would vote for CMU because I know many students in that program. I know the director, admission and career services people of CMU. And I always receive answer for anything I ask about their program, from one source or another.
So I'm somewhat certain that nobody at CMU would intentionally lie or hide anything from me. Usually, I get my info from multiple sources in the program so I can verify the validity of them.
Transparency is something I value highly in a good program.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

By the way, did anyone know that we host online chats with CMU MSCF program (along with Baruch MFE, NYU-Poly)
You can look at the chat transcripts to glance more info on the program
http://www.quantnet.com/live/

 

[roastduck]

By the way, did anyone know that we host online chats with CMU MSCF program (along with Baruch MFE, NYU-Poly)
You can look at the chat transcripts to glance more info on the program
http://www.quantnet.com/live/

Ya, I found that too before my interview, it's really helpful~

 

[roastduck]

I would vote for CMU because I know many students in that program. I know the director, admission and career services people of CMU. And I always receive answer for anything I ask about their program, from one source or another.
So I'm somewhat certain that nobody at CMU would intentionally lie or hide anything from me. Usually, I get my info from multiple sources in the program so I can verify the validity of them.
Transparency is something I value highly in a good program.

Hi Andy,
I read in the admission package that CMU has placed more than half of the students in S&T interns this year. However, S&T seems to include a lot of job functions such as sales, trading, structuring, strategist, quant, research etc. Do you happen to have any idea on the general break-down of the 50+% statistics?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I don't have that breakdown. The internship front seems to be very good this year, according to people studying in CMU NYC.
They have banks coming to their building to interview for the first round. The second round is at the banks' office.
Students with no experience get put into analyst rotational program where they rotate between several groups during the summer. A lot of CMU students got into this rotation program this year.
This may be what they refer to as S&T interns. The analyst rotational program usually is run by banks to feed undergraduate students and those without experience into their training program.

Usually, MFE students do not end up in a rotational program. They get interviewed directly by a specific group/division.

 

[roni]

I think S&T doesn't include any of the structuring/strategiest/quant positions.... they would mention these explicitly as these positions sound fancier...